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Hey dan, hope all is well. Ive been utilizing your “solid training program” template and its been an absolute success. I have one question though, on my lower body day instead of squating and deadlifting im just doing Trap Bar deadlifts as the main lift and after that i do some hamstring and ab work. My question for you is should i add a quad dominant lift (leg press,lunges,etc) because of all the hip/hamstring work that is being performed (Trap Bar deads,stability ball bridge/leg curl)
I’m VERY big on all types of unilateral exercises. The answer in your case is “it depends”. If you like what you’re doing then there’s nothing wrong with running a block w/ what you’re doing and then go back to some added quads work. It’s not like you’re completely neglecting them as TB deads do activate your quads to some extent.
One thing I like programming with my trainees is alternating microcycles like this:
2 weeks:
Main Exercise (squat/dead)
a1) Hamstrings (deadlift variant, glutehams, ect)
a2) Abs
b1) Unilateral
b2) Posterior work (pullthroughs, swings, ect)
2 weeks:
Main Exercise (squat/dead)
a1) Squat (bilateral)
a2) Abs
b1) Hamstrings (isolations)
b2) Weak Point
ok got a q:
if someone is weak as heck, cant do many pullups and wants to get strong like ox, what would u first recommend them to work on in order to get strong everywhere, yet they dont do full doby workouts well?
I know full body workouts are taboo with a lot of lifters and I’ll start by pointing out that most people should be programs they NEED vs WANT, so if someone’s generally not very strong, then there’s no reason why you need to wait longer than a day between same body workouts. So I think the FB programming would be the key to whether or not someone would respond or not (ie doing 15 exercises to hit each muscle group vs. one that hits several).
If you can’t do very many pull-ups, then mastering your body weight should be the first step in becoming “strong as an ox”. Pull-ups could be prioritized in any workout routine by simply starting with them. You could start by doing a pyramid style of ramp-up / down like a 1,2,3,4,5,4,3,2,1 (or) 2-4 max sets NTF (not to failure) (or) the obvious which is to start off with identifying what you CAN do and build off of that. If I have a trainee that can only do Australian pull-ups (basically an inverted row), then that’s ground zero and over time we move from those to a rack chin, and so on. If pull-ups are too difficult, try wide chins (underhand) and if those are tough then neutral grips are by far the easiest. It’s all about building off of each workout adding a little more that you didn’t think possible last time. For others they may need a different line of programming like controlled eccentrics and fixed hangs (females in particular). The eventual goal is to be able to handle pull-ups of all shapes and sizes which WILL make you bullstrong and can only help increase your main lifts across the board.
Just think to yourself how much potential can someone be able to bench when they don’t address something as simple as pull-ups strength in favor of working around it w/ the pulldowns?
Happy to have you on the roster Josh – Good luck with Week Zero!
Hey, I saw your post on your blog as well as BB.com and was wondering how you’d go about programming assistance work for the 5/3/1 for beginner that Wendler has. Could BBB be added?
I’m 19 currently and weigh 155, my lifts are as follows:
Deadlift – 295×4
Press – 100×4
Incline Bench – 125×4
Squat – 215×3
The template Wendler has for FB Beginner is
Monday
Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Bench – 55%x5, 65×5%, 75%x5
Assistance work
Wednesday
Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Press – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Assistance work
Friday
Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Squat – 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5
Assistance work
The way I have it set up currently is would throw in some T-Bar rows on Mondays, as well as hamstring work (RDLs 3×10), and lower back work (weighted hypers 3×10). Then on Wednesday I would throw in some squat accessory for 3×10 (Leg Press), as well as some bicep work. For Friday I would simply throw in the rows again and possibly something else?
If you have any suggestions, that’d be fantastic.
Thanks again!
If you’re doing full body 5/3/1, I would strongly recommend against adding extra work as you’re being tasked with hitting those exercises hard every other day (which is very easy for beginners to accomplish). The exercises themselves solve any weak points beginners have as they’re full body and compound exclusive. So doing your heavy pressing EOD (every other day) three days per week more than hits your triceps, delts, chest, ect more than any pressdown would.
If you’re interested in doing the 5×10 model he has, my honest answer would be to hold off until you’ve sufficiently worked the FB template and accrued higher levels of physical strength. Reason being, the BBB is for straight up hypertrophy work and in your (and every other beginner/intermediate) case strength training IS hypertrophy training.. So by putting yourself on a calorie surplus and focusing your efforts on increasing your strength using that FB set-up, you should gain a good deal of mass without any added isolations or exercises believe it or not.
Eventually, you can try a few months with the BBB, but I wouldn’t recommend it at this time at your current strength levels. In my view, taking 50% of a 100 x 4 overhead press for your program amounts to 50 lbs for your 5 x 10 (meaning you’d be working out with the bar + 2.5 lbs per side). If that was me, I’d feel a bit ridiculous LOL!
Work the program, HARD, and give it a 3-5 month mesocycle and then revisit the question and decide what’s next. From the outside looking in, I’d suspect one of two things would serve you better than the BBB… Either continuing on with the FB program (provided there’s consistent results) OR if you do find yourself topping off then moving to an upper/lower/upper (ie bench/squat/OHP/deadlift) 3 days per week adding in a few key exercises to address any weakpoints that are holding you back from bigger weights.
Thanks for posting
I have a quick question about the training template you created. The exercises listed are set up in superset fashion. Is there a reason behind ? If so, is it more beneficial than regular sets for strength
Always strive to do the most amount of work in the least amount of time. The main reason for doing antagonistic pairings is that it allows you to rest one set of muscles while using another. So after an overhead pressing movement, you’re resting those muscles while doing something like a pull-up. So you have two choices. Either play with your IPod for 2-3 min between pressing OR spend that time pulling. Some may argue that it takes a little something off strength wise, but I contend just the opposite.. That over time your body adapts to what you’re doing and over time you won’t even notice. Now, some things like bench press when your near max I can say that you may want to focus only on benching during those few max attempts. However, feel free to hit the pulling hard on all your ramp-ups. Back when I was training my bench hard I was doing TONS of different pull-ups either sets of 10-12 bodyweighted starting with the empty bar all the way up to sets of 4-6 w/ 90 lbs attached to my belt benching 385. I’m not in the habit of making blanket statements, but I will go on record here and state that ALL of my trainees that are proficient at pull-ups & have a good strength base are all doing these fast paced supersets and are hitting multiple PR’s after stalling out for months/years so that’s telling to me. Is it the be all end all, no. BUT, I find it a shame that more people are too scared to do this simply because conventional “wisdom” dictates you need exactly 3+ min of rest between sets (LOL)!
On Tuesday I did chin ups between every warm up set for my bench press (using the 5/3/1 format). Then I supersetted cable rows and db floor presses and after that I did some triceps press downs and facepulls and called it a day. I finished all that in the same amount of time it took me to do one of my “normal” workouts which consist of less exercises and all static sets. I didn’t even have to lighten the weight at all. It made my time in the gym feel much more efficient and intense. thanks Dan, my workouts have never been this thoroughly thought out and structured like they have been since taking your advice and using the base template, really appreciate it !!
Thanks for checking back in brother! I always hold out hope that there are individuals like yourself that not only receive instruction but put it in action. Too many forum jockey’s like to ask questions and continue doing their own thing. You did yourself a real solid here and I think it’ll take you far.
Check back in and let us know how it’s going.
hey dan, i changed my user name from getbig10 to fmickey92. I’m doing the routine we talked about recently and I’m absolutely loving it. i play basketball and i am very in to athletics, do you know of any exercises i may be able to sub in for some of the iso work (triceps extensions, bb curls, etc) that would increase explosiveness ?
You’re training 3 days per week right?
How proficient are you at body weighted movements?
http://www.clutchfitness.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12251
Yes i’am training 3 days per week (upper/lower/upper). I was at one point very proficient at body weight exercises (chins,pull ups,dips,push up variations,planks,etc). Now i can only manage to do about 45 push ups,20+ dips,10+chin ups.
You need to always ask yourself if your training is in place to augment your abilities on the BB court or is it just a hobby like most people? While Wendler coined the now famous phrase, “You cannot serve two masters”, I believe the opposite – There is no one or the other and you can continue along with strength progressions while increasing your proficiency on the BB court. For most trainees, there’s a BB season followed by an offseason which is IMO the easiest to program. That said, my impression of you is that you just play pick up games year around, correct? Assuming you do, you need to maintain a low volume of training as your joints take a pounding doing the hard running and pivoting on the court. If you want to get stronger for basketball, I don’t think that’s really the focus as most can’t bench 185 (think Kevin Durant).
Try incorporating some postworkout conditioning such as box jumps (weighted/BW), clapping push-ups (go for a total (or) 5 x 10-15 (or) descending sets 15-1), speed roping, and of course be sure to review my WOW’s posted in the approp. section (workout of the week). Nothing on this planet will provide the level of preparedness for sporting events quite like simple exercises done in a non-stop fashion PWO (example: 50 contacts rope, 15 box jumps, 15 BF sit-ups, 15 clapping push-ups, 20 air squats, repeat)..
Yes I do play all year round, its not just because of basketball though. I’ve always had an obsession with being as athletic as possible at all times, I seem to correlate being athletic with being healthy and fit but right now I’m doing the rountin we talked about and instead of a “tricep extension” exercise ill be doing plyo push ups (clap pushups) and I placed box jumps and farmer walks on my lowerbody days. I do jumprope before every session as a fullbody warm up as well. Once again thank you for the quick response I feel much more confident going into the gym knowing I received advice from a great trainer, appreciate it
I’ve been doing generic bodybuilding routines for several months with somewhat miner tweaks here and there. Im becoming stronger slowly but I’m not getting much bigger, so i decided i want to give your program template (upper/lower/upper) a shot. It makes much more sense to me anyway, i just have a couple questions. Do i have to do two presses in one upper body session like it says to do. id much rather do one horizontal row/press in one upper body session and then one vertical press/pull the next i was wondering if this would be okay. I also have realized my biceps/rear delts are a weak point so where would i implement those in.
Hey getbig (what’s your real name)?
Are you referring to my programming article template? Without seeing your entire routine that sounds like a very good idea.. Most of my S&C stylized blocks revolve around an upper/lower/upper with an optional fourth GPP focused day. For hypertrophy, you could look to create another lower day and do that on the 4th day (classic 4 day upper/lower) *or* you could stay with a 3 day schedule and rotate in that extra lower workout (upper/lower/upper, lower/upper/lower) which IME works extremely well for the vast majority of trainees.
For weak point training, I personally prefer to choose exercises that provide that added stimulus bringing them up vs. extra exercises. If biceps aren’t up to snuff, that would suggest choosing exercises such as supinated rows/chins as your primary back exercises which place more stress on your biceps vs. prolongated. Triceps make up 2/3 of your arm size so it would be wise to emphasize that in your programming.
Remember there’s MANY things that work well, it’s the specificity that’s the most important part (tailoring the routine to YOU). More often than not, as long as your progressively increasing *something* every single workout albeit sets, reps, or weight (single, double, triple progression) then the attention turns to your nutrition which in your case in a calorie surplus.
Post up your entire routine so I can get a better picture and offer some suggestions for you. Keep in mind you’re always looking for adequate stimulation combined with a calorie surplus. Piece together your routine with that in mind and you’ll do yourself a world of good.
Thanks for the quick reply. Let me just start by saying your stuff is gold and i really appreciate the fact that you go out of your way to give out solid information for FREE. Anyway my name is frank and i was talking about your routine template that you have posted here on the blog. I did a generic bodybuilding routine with a mid-level amount of volume (3-12 sets depending on bodypart) for several months with decent progress, but training each body part once a week and doing exercises that repeatedly hit the same muscle really makes no sense to me anymore what so ever. I love your upper/lower body setup and i saw that you have 2 pressing movements and 2 back movements on each upper body day even though it says the pull-ups/chin ups were “optional” so i basically want to do the routine almost as written but like this instead
upperbody:
bench press
v-bar rows
triceps isolation
rear delt (face pulls)
upperbody 2:
OHP/Incline bb/db press
chins (eventually weighted)
dips
bb or db curls
and then i would slowly add exercises but if more volume is what i need i will raises the sets first before adding more movements
First, thanks for the props Frank! I’ve always held the belief that if I’m going to take the time to answer someone’s question, I’d rather be thorough and answer it completely in paragraph form vs. a one liner and it’s always nice to see someone point that out whether on the forums or here.
You have a great thought process and choice in routine here Frank. This is the same exact type of programming I myself have done successfully for the past few years more or less. The key is to always have a 2:1 pull to press ratio if at all possible which this provides. The customizations which you eluded to are endless. As with my trainees as well, I try to pair up exercises that are along the same plane (horizontal press/pull : vertical press/pull).
What you have is a great base routine, cutting out the unnecessary bullshit and focusing your volume around those big key lifts (see my Elitefts article here). You can either run through a gauntlet of 10 different exercises all working the same muscle (or) just stick to a handful of the best lifts that work for YOU.
upperbody:
bench press
v-bar rows
triceps isolation
rear delt (face pulls)
^ Eventually, what I liked to do is alternate in some lean away chins (or) neutral grip pull-ups between all bench pressing sets similar to what Wendler advocates. After a short adaptation phase you’ll find that your bench doesn’t get affected too much other than potentially some minor bar control issues with fatigued lats. Another option I have my guys doing is to superset the bench and rows (which fits my training system of “more work in less time”. Either way gets the job done in spades, and it also fits the “lifting on the same plane” mold you set for your training. On another note, my trainees normally do a lot of yoke work where you have your rear delt exercise.
If your triceps are a weak point, my first inclination is to examine what you’re doing for that triceps isolation. Cables/machines are fine, but I’m more partial to things like rolling DB extensions, dead stop barbell extensions on the floor, Paul Dicks or JM presses, ect. I also want to point out that while you annotated “isolation” on there, do NOT rule out nor discount working in 2-3 board presses, pin presses, OR especially weighted dips, closegrip presses (all 3 angles, paused/not), and floor presses (which I’ve really started liking following my bench portion).
Finally, don’t rule out plugging in more exercises as needed or back-off sets to boost up the volume. When it comes to training, anything goes.
upperbody 2:
OHP/Incline bb/db press
chins (eventually weighted)
dips
bb or db curls
^ In my routine, I would do unweighted chins/pull-ups between my pressing sets which is a glorified warm-up for the weighted sets to be supersetted w/ weighted dips. All that does is add a lot more volume for your back, and that order could be reversed as well starting with weighted pull-ups (do the regular warm-ups at the same time as you’re warming up the OHP’s starting with an EMPTY BAR). Here again, same thought process I detailed above with your other upper day.
Nothing works forever, but as long as you’re progressing on your lifts and being efficient with your time while focusing on a calorie surplus, you’re doing all the right things. In my honest opinion, weak points more often than not is something that should be attended to once you reach a certain stage of development. That means if someone is only an intermediate, chances are there’s going to be some weak points that come up which may or may not be according to their own genetic blueprint. I see a lot of people point out that arms are a weak point, but a lot of that is governed my genetics which is something outside their control. The only thing you can do is keep working hard and training consistently.
I couldn’t have asked for a better response, I really appreciate the help. All your ideas are great I will keep them in mind, especially the chins/pull ups in between the sets of my pressing movements. I only placed facepulls in the routine to ensure overall shoulder health/balance. Last question, would you do more sets on your back movements then you would do on your pressing movement and if so how would you set it up. I usually do 3 sets for most exercises
Things such as face pulls, BPA’s (banded pull-aparts), scapular retractions, YTWL’s and so forth I would classify more towards prehab work (preventative maintenance). Those things can be done both pre and postworkout. Don’t get too wrapped up in those exercises, just ensure they get done.
Regarding back volume, there’s really nothing concrete here. You could start by supersetting your work sets only and progress from there by way of adding more sets, reps, ect. Initially, I always recommend starting with the same amount of sets and re-assess from there. You can almost always get away with more pulling work compared to pressing. Some of the things I’ve personally done in the past with regards to pull-ups (since you expressed interest) is to start with a few body weighted sets at the tail end of your pressing warm-ups, then add weight for 3 work sets of presses ss w/ pull-ups. Over time I not only added weight (or) reps to my top work sets, but I also started adding more warm-up sets in going backwards in my warm-ups. Sounds confusing, but all I’m saying is that if you start supersetting pull-ups at 185 lbs which is part of your bench press warm-ups, over time you could start your pull-ups at 135 lbs, then 95 lbs, then the bar x 20 (which should always be done no matter what). As a side note, when I hit my max bench press of 410 x 1 which is proudly posted on my Youtube page LOL, guess what I was doing with every single warm-up set starting with the bar? A set of 8-10 pull-ups between every set until I got to the work sets (I was doing the 5/3/1 and I was on the peak week), then after my final set, I dropped the pull-ups and did some paused singles up to 385 (also on Youtube), then 410 T&G since I was feeling extremely good that day.
This isn’t meant to sound like I’m trying to brag, but hopefully you’ll read it and understand how to implement the pull-ups and/or other pulling exercises and that given enough time they WILL NOT sap your strength. I’ve seen it with every one of my trainees in that part of my goals is to have all of them master their own body weight.. Eventually building up their workload to tolerate all the pull-ups in any given workout.
Hi Dan,
Just ‘stumbled’ upon an article of yours over at EFTS. Which lead me to your other Elite articles. Which after reading them, lead me here. Great stuff. Simple. Concise. Realworld advice.
I don’t know if you take article requests/suggestions, but I’d love to see a article detailing a Yoke focused routine from you.
I do have one question: I just started training at a ‘commercial’ gym after years of training at home. Now that I can do face pulls with something other than bands/tubes, how often can I do them? I train 4 days a week, upper/lower. I’ve found it nearly impossible to overtrain my upper back (lats are another story). I’m tempted to do them evey training day? Any advice concerning this?
Thank you for your time.
I’ll certainly consider putting out a full article on yoke training. I do quite a few things with not only my guys but in my own training that’s proven highly successful.
Regarding face pulls – If you’re only talking about a few sets at the beginning or end of every workout I don’t see any harm in doing so. I know Louie Simmons advocates “extra workouts” which are quick mini workouts up to a dozen times per week in addition to four days of strength training. These workouts would focus on a few lighter isolations in 5 minute blocks (15 total minutes) where you’d do things like abs pulldowns, BPA’s, light DB presses, and so forth just to get some extra work in without tipping the scales towards overtraining.
I think out of everything, face pulls and BPA’s are a few of the best things you can do for overall shoulder health. In this instance, you can’t have too much of a good thing.
Had shoulder surgery at the end of dec ’11. Been doing PT for it but fell back. Had a shooting pain down from my shoulder to my elbow along my bicep. Been getting ultrasounds on the shoulder and that has been helping along with more PT.
My question is in regards to warming up the shoulders. For legs, I stretch and do dynamic stretching but wasnt sure if there were any suggestions on shoulders. Would you recommend dynamic stretching, static, both?
SandBlaster – is there any chance you could post up your upper body specialization workout that you had on IronAddicts before? Would really appreciate it.
Honestly, I don’t have that program anymore. I wrote it on the board, but I will make something like it available.
That would be great – thanks very much. I look forward to it.
Also – keep up the site guys, this is a great resource and I’m grateful for your efforts
Dan, just wanted to be sure I got the numbers right… week 1 back at it was a humbling experience, Bench 1rm=210, Dead 1rm-=325 and Squat 1rm=275. So if I start with squat on the 5/3/1 week 1 would look like 160×5, week 2 173×3, week 3 185×5, week 4 98×5? Am I even in the ball park (I don’t use math in real life lol)
Hmm, are you just asking about the top set? With regards to the 5/3/1, here’s what you need to do:
Bench – 210 * .90 = 190
Dead – 325 * .90 = 290
Squat – 275 * .90 = 245
OHP – ???
These are your maxes that you will use to base those prescribed percentages off of. So using your 3 x 5 day it would look like this:
Bench 65/75/85 (3 x 5) -> 125 x 5, 140 x 5, 160 x 5 (top set)
I didn’t check the rest, but it looks like you’re right on target!
Is this the type of program you would be interested in? In your circumstance, that’s just one route that I would go in. If you look inside Fireproof’s journal, he was in the same situation (coming from a very long layoff from lifting). In his case, taking his age and other factors I know into consideration, I came up with a four point plan for him to execute each day, three days per week. Check out his journal to evaluate if that’s something you would consider. I opted to put you on a 5/3/1 because that’s an easy routine to formulate and it’s not something I would charge you in your case. For actual clients, I put them on a specific plan to get back in there.
Phase I – Warm-up routine (circuit style)
Phase II – Strength training (weight lifting)
Phase III – Core strength (abs)
Phase IV – Restoration (stretching / massage + release)
There’s A LOT more to it than that obviously, and there’s a lot of fun elements I work in which proves to be highly beneficial. If you decide to stick to the 5/3/1, I’m here to help when you need it either here or Clutch. If you decide you want to come aboard, we can head in this direction no doubt about it. Doing it my way is the right way IMO which puts you in the absolute best position at the end to go in a million different directions with a high success rate. Dialing Rich (FP) into this programming and taking him on was an easy price to pay for all that he’s done for Lucharilla. Expect big things from him!
It was fun to watch his last journal as he got ready to compete, just like Tommy’s. I’ll be keeping track of this trip too. I’ve never actually stuck with a programme before so this is day 1 for me – I’m looking forward to it. Good lookin out Dan.
Yup, that’s a wrap then. Didn’t get the OHP till last night which came in at a whopping 125. Hopefully it won’t take donkeys years to get back to my old numbers – thanks boss.
hey guys, just wondering if you can help me with my squat and dead form..
Ive only just started to appreciate and ejoy doing these, so I think I can do well with these two lifts with some better form, and time under the bar.
here is my squat and deadlift from my last workout..
deadlift 330x 2
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/I9xOAKJNYoo/
squat 285 x 2
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/DJDLhqymztM/
Dan, just a quick question on injuries… obviously the final say rests with the doc but my shoulder pops/clicks when benching. I figure a doc will suggest avoiding the movement in question, or easing up on the amount of weight but I’ve just started back after more than a few months off and I’ve kept the weight ridiculously light. I didn’t ‘warm up’ on account of the work load being so light. I did notice tucking my elbows in stopped the feeling/sound but I don’t think my elbows were out too far to start with, does this sound like something common with the bench? Cheers.
Hey Patrick!
The best course of action is to see what the doctor says. At least if you find out what we are dealing with we could determine with the next best course of action will be.
With that said, you just started lifting again after quite a long hiatus. No matter how light you are lifting, you should ALWAYS warm-up regardless. I usually have my trainees do a circuit type warm-up like we talked about on the phone. In your case, I would definitely like to see you do a YTWL Complex before you begin your warm-ups (which start with the empty bar of course).
“The YTWL Complex
The YTWL Exercise: 3 sets x 8 reps of each, 2 second pause at the top of each rep, 0 seconds rest
YTWLs are a shoulder stability exercise that should help.
Lie face down on a bench and perform each exercise for 8 reps non-stop, then proceed immediately to the next exercise:
Y: Raise the dumbbells up in front of you so that they end up in a Y shape in front of the torso.
T: Raise the dumbbells out so they’re perpendicular to the torso (creating a T-shape)
W: Bend the arms to 90 degrees and raise and lower the dumbbells in line with the torso.
L: Holding the top of the W contraction, rotate your forearms down so your fists point toward the floor. Keeping your elbows perfectly still, externally rotate the dumbbells back to the W position.
There should be no rest between exercises! Use light dumbbells so you can maintain form. Ten pounds would be “very heavy” for this series of exercises.” – Elitefts
Coming off of the break, you’re going to have to start from the ground up strengthening your joints, ligaments, and connective tissue. I know you’re starting off the 5/3/1 really light (as you should), but I think there’s a lot of benefit to prehab work. Of course the term “prehab” as opposed to rehab has the purpose of preventing injuries before they happen. If it is a reoccuring issue, please talk to the doc and find out.
There’s a lot of other highly experienced members here that may have more information or insight as to what this is or what the best course of action will be for you to take.
Thanks for checking in!
Sounds easy – I’ll start adding that in, cheers.
With the bench press you will find that some people can do it without pain, clicking, and other ailments. Others have issues. I can flat bench with no problem, but if I incline, and my elbows are out, I get a lot of clicking and a general lack of good feeling. Keeping my elbows in solves the problem. The same for dips. And I continue to get stronger working that area.
The moral of the story is to find your range in a movement and work on that without pain or other issues. As Dan recommended, upper back and shoulder rehab work will ensure you stay healthy.
Hey, Scott – thanks for the info (been a while since we spoke). Elbow position is obviously a factor for me also. I’ll file this under getting to know one’s own body.
planned overreachingovertraining. is this on the right track?
4-5 weeks of loading, accumulating fatigue… I know there are probably many different ways to do this, and each person is different but I just want to know If Im getting on the right track in terms of my line of thinking
First start with a strength/ME phase (3×3′s, some single work) 3 weeks or so. Then:
load wk 1 : 70% 1RM work up to a single working set, with rest paused up to 12-15reps
+ Pin presses 2 x 6 static
+ Chins 2 x amap
+ab circuit 3/4 exercises, 3 x 10 timed
Wk 2: 75% 1 RM work up to a single working set, with rest paused up to12-15reps
+ Pin presses 3 x 6 static
+ Chins 3 x amap
+ab circuit 3/4 exercises, 4 x 10 timed
and so on.
Each following week add 5-10 pounds to main lift, add 1 set to each accessory(same weight)
Until I start losing performance, feeling like shit. (i.e. 4 weeks overreaching)
then deload or rest a week, depending how i feel…
rinse, repeat
I’m on my phone, but real quick, thats way, way off. And in your case, 1000% not necessary. The ones that need this kind of training are looking for 15 lb PR for a years worth of programming. Like I told you 20 times already, you could get there with simple weekly progression. Hell, I did a simple 531 to bench 410. So if I dont need that, you certainly won’t benching 305!
Its not what Im doing, Just read a post/thread and wanted to understand the concept.
Yes, I saw the emails. I think we’re on the same page now.
Just an FYI for all: My computer is out of commission as of the past week and I can only respond quickly via my phone. I try to get something out quickly as a “place setter” until I can come back and go in depth.
If you look at my log you will notice that I have been doing SIMPLE weekly progression…. A little while ago i sent you percentages of my plan.. but it was sort of a kick off point.. I have since dropped that and have been building my bench and other lifts weekly..
Saturdays I do a bench, ramped up the weight, and workign on increasing my singles (I have only considered after a single, dropping the weight about 10% adn doing a triple)… after that I do pin press 2×6, chins, external rotations, and an ab circuit for time.
Mondays I deadlift and squat… I started off working up to a triple for deads, then a 20 repper squat… I have since decided to build my squat up and am working that instead of widows. then after that i walk on the treadmill for 20-30 minutes,
Tuesdays My main lift is a row… follow that up with a paused bench, and finally a short circuit of dips, chins, and hypers, for time.
As I stated earlier, I think you got the terminology down. Before I respond, is what you posted pertaining to the intensity phase?
Basically was just wondering about loading in regards to overeaching as I know it takes weeks to build up to that..
I also read your article just posted, and I saw was reading about waving the accy work..
Then I wanted to see if thats a way to build up fatigue/overreach..just weekly adding sets.
then I wondered if there would be any benefit to do what Im doing, but increase work capacity by adding a set a week to all accy/supplemental exercises until i have a need to deload? sorry if I drew this out too long
Okay, so your example was referring to the loading phase? Okay, let’s go with that. A simple example I could come up with is as follows. If you can look at your loading phase and think to yourself that there’s no way you could sustain it for longer than 3-4 weeks (roughly), then you’re on the right track. This is a complex system and it’s a difficult one to pin down with a perfect example lol. Practical Programming by Mark Rippetoe is a terrific place to start. Once you get the concepts down, and run a couple of cycles through as I have, then you can start coming up with your own programming to run.
Here’s a few things:
1) Main Exercise
Point #1 – You are starting off at 70% for week one, 75% for week two, and so on. If you want to overreach, you need to think in terms of perhaps doing 80%, 90%, 100%, 105% in which the final week could potentially see you missing weight (as that should be a new PR had you made it). I know you stated working up to 1 RM’s, but that’s not the right phase to be doing that.. However, none of that is important. The important thing is loading your body with enough volume + intensity over the weeks, not making a PR on week 3 or week 4. Doing some rest pausing at the tail end of that main exercise isn’t going to overload your body due in large part to the reduced percentage based work you are using.
Point #2 – Your choice of rep ranges is too low to start a loading phase with. If your end goal is a 1-5 rep PR after your intensification phase, the last thing you need to be doing is heavy singles during the volume phase. Here’s a few examples to help this process along:
Volume -> Intensity
3 x 10 -> 1 x 5
5 x 5 -> 3 x 3 (static weights)
5 x 5 -> 3 x 3 (pyramid up to top set)
Just three quick examples off the top of my head. What you’ll notice is the loading phase gets slashed in half in regards to volume while driving up the intensity. Doing a backbreaking set of squats at say 350 for 3 sets of 10 reps gets a million times easier for you doing 405 for 1 set of 5. In fact, it feels like a vacation. And THAT is what we are doing. Hell, you could start off your intensity phase with 3 x 5 (30 reps -> 15 reps)and over the weeks work up to a top set of 5 reps.. Which will be a new PR for 5 reps. That’s the goal. That final week. All the other 6-8 weeks means absolutely nothing other than your programming leading you up to that peak event. If you feel great, go for another week with some singles training.
That paragraph encompasses the thought process behind planned overreaching. All your programming leading you up to that one week to hit PR’s. Nothing more than that. So when I said that it’s not necessary, I didn’t mean to take a dig at you or anything LOL. Hell, it’s not necessary for me neither! That was my point.
As far as wave loading the supplemental and accessory work as per my article, two different things IMO. I’ve found that there’s many ways to approach your training depending on experience levels and goals. Wave loading accessory work is something I love to do, but I don’t do that with a goal in mind to overreach. Instead, it’s more in line with a linear style of progression in that I may start off waving my supplemental work per block vs. from week to week. Specifically, I look at breaking each 4 week cycle of my regular training up into these kinds of blocks (volume and intensity), but it’s not a planned overreaching type of program. An example could be doing dips for the first four weeks at a 5 x 10, then a second 4 week block would be 5 x 5 where I’m ramping the weight up every set. That’s highly productive IME, but I’m not looking for an overreached state at any point. Just constant and CONSISTENT progression.
okay I understand what you are getting at for the most part.. I should just be thinking about progress regardless of whether I waving the sets, or doing loading and intensification phases, or any other style. thinking in terms of overreaching is not where I am at.
So I can plan for blocks of loading and intensification, or waving… and not necessarily be working towards overreaching. JUST progress
thanks, I was thinking about overreaching…
(and also ways I can make progression and increase work capacity as well, without making it too complicated. such as adding sets, etc), but I thought that one was tied to the other.
Hey guys. Currently working towards a 305 bench. at 275 now and hoping to reach 305 in another 8-9 weeks. I rotate ME benching with higher rep paused benching from 70-80%max. I have also recently started using pin presses to get past a sticking point in the middle. I was under the assumption that normally a pin press or board press’s weight would be higher than a full bench press, but when I started doing pin presses last night, I used the weight of my regular bench to start, and as soon as I hit the pins I was stuck.. I dropped the weight to 235, and still got only one rep before I was pinned down… I reduced all the way to 185 to get two sets of 5.. (note: I also used a more narrow grip, two finger widths in from the rings)
What does this mean? am I strong at the bottom and my weak triceps/delts are keeping me from reaching much higher weights?? whats a good solution?
Here’s what I just saw in your log:
Bench Press
Bar x 8
135 x 5
185 x 3
235 x 1
265 x 1
275 x 1
285 failed
Pin Press
265 failed
235 x 1
185 x 5
185 x 5
Board presses are much easier IMO than pin presses. It really depends on height. When I bench press up to a top set of 3-5 reps, I USUALLY can add in 3-4 boards and start board pressing at the same weight I left off at. Pin presses are totally different, especially since you’re starting the press from a dead stop off the pins.
When you say you, “hit the pins you were stuck”, are you saying that you unrack the bench, then bring it down to the pins? That’s not how you should be doing pin presses. You want the barbell already resting on the pins.
The simple solution here is to treat them as the two different exercises that they are. If you finish benching 275 x 1, move over to the pin press and reduce the weight to ensure you’re fitting in your prescription for the day. If it’s 2 x 5, reduce the weight to ensure you there’s no problems getting it up. Over the weeks, start adding weight.
One thing I loved regarding pin presses was to use them as a supplemental lift and keep it nice and heavy using singles w/ strict controlled rest periods. Something like 6 sets of 1 w/ 60 seconds timed rest between sets. Start off with a heavy weight that you can definitely hit all required reps with taking into account the 60 sec rest periods. Over time increase the weight. I never liked using multiple reps with pin presses and having to reset between reps. Your mileage may vary.
Yes, I unracked it first, didnt realize that it was wrong, thanks for clearing it up. I’ll start from the pins, and work on adding weight. Thanks also for the suggestion.. should I keep as is for the 2×5, or do you see a 6×1 being better?
Depends on the context of the rest of your routine. As you know, I really like taking a simple format like the 5/3/1 and customize it to your strengths and weaknesses. I think it’s a very good routine for YOU.. But you already knew that!
I have a lot of good ideas in that dept in regards to bench specialization.
Great thanks!
Please post any questions you might have here and we will answer them as soon as possible.
Scott